Regenerative Skills

Championing the alternative to a farm free future, with Chris Smaje

I’ve been watching an interesting and important discussion play out for a number of years now within the environmental movement and ecological farming community. It appears that on one hand we have a group that is convinced by the data that farming to feed a population which is growing exponentially through traditional land based means is doomed to be an ecological detriment. Our current system should instead be replaced with high tech solutions such as vertical farms and laboratory processes to create the nutrition this population needs. As a result we could return much of our farmland to rewilding efforts to recover the natural environments and biodiversity that we've lost, in no small part due to modern agriculture.
 
On the other side we have people who are convinced by the data (often the same data) that we need to return to a deeper and more compassionate relationship with the earth, one that allows for us to produce a yield without compromising the ability of all other life forms to exist and thrive. In this way we can both feed the population and restore our role as environmental stewards. Rather than returning many farms to rewild, we could incorporate habitat and biodiversity into our production methods and foster the recovery of wild species in a way that enhances the resilience of our production methods. 
 
Instead of isolating human activity from a pristine concept of the natural world and permitting destructive actions in the remaining space, we could consider all of our necessary functions within a globally connected landscape for their potential to enhance all forms of life, not just our own. These two contrasting world views recently came to head during a debate between Allan Savory and George Monbiot. Allan represented the side of holistic management, taking into account the infinite complexity of the natural world to create management frameworks to operate with this nuance in a way that respects all the cycles and life affirming principles of our world. 
 
George has been an outspoken critic of this position, especially in how it relates to the management of livestock in farming, arguing that there is no potential for beneficial ecological outcomes in livestock farming, and that in order to combat the climate crisis and mass biodiversity loss, high efficiency farming must be leveraged, along with technologies such as precision fermentation, to produce plant based protein alternatives to meat. 
 
I’ve linked to the video recording of the debate in the show notes for this episode on the website, in order to let you make up your own mind about which side you support. I also want to express that I don’t consider these two positions, certainly not in their rigidity, as the only positions in the broader discussion. At the same time I know that anyone who has listened to more than a few episodes of this show will know which direction I lean personally. That brings me to today's interview in which I’ll be speaking with Chris Smaje. Chris is a university-based social scientist turned farmer. Has co-run a small farm and market garden for the last 20 years. Along with farming he is a dedicated voice for regenerative and locally based food systems. He's the author of 'A Small Farm Future' which articulates his vision and the details of a society built around local economies and food systems, and his most recent title, 'Saying NO to a Farm-Free Future directly confronts the popular arguments in favor of manufactured food and removing food production from the land. 
 
In our conversation we start by identifying the sources and advocacy of industrially produced food and farm alternatives. We break down the manipulation of data and reductionist thinking that results in conclusions that technological fixes are our only solutions. 
Chris also paints a picture of his ideas for a brighter alternative to these conclusions and what is possible in a more locally based and decentralized configuration of our sources of sustenance. 
 
We also dig into the active role that all of us can play in creating this alternative future and accelerate a transformation in the role of farming as well as supply and production of food to one that serves the broader community of life that we’re all connected to. 
This is one of my current favorite subjects of exploration as it is connected to so many aspects of how we live, organize ourselves, co-create culture and community, and manifest our future. I hope to explore aspects of this with many more people and perspectives in the coming months, so please, if there are people that you would like to hear me interview about these topics or if you’d like to add or challenge any of the points in the upcoming discussion, I encourage you to reach out on our discord community or to me directly at info@regenerativeskills.com

Matt Powers on discovering the world under our feet with soil microscopy

One of the emerging practices in the regenerative work space is that of citizen science. This covers an infinite range of scientific specialties, but I’ve especially seen amazing things come from two areas in the last couple years. These would be mycology and the study of soil. That isn’t to say that traditional institutions aren’t making advances in these fields, but passionate amateurs have also been leading some incredible innovations in these areas. Incredibly, at the center of both of these movements I regularly find my good friend Matt Powers, the author of many well known volumes including the Permaculture Student volumes one and two, Unstoppable Enthusiasm, and now even volumes for children including the newest, The Forgotten Food Forest which can all be found on his website along with many online courses at thepermaculturestudent.com
But of course today, we’ll be focusing on the cutting edge of soil science and how these new discoveries can help you in a very practical way to improve the health of the soil on your land and grow the highest quality food anywhere. 
As a follow up on the last interview we did together about his epic text book of a volume, Regenerative Soil, comes the next volume that illuminates the study of soil called Regenerative Soil Microscopy. Having read the first book is a necessary prerequisite for this volume, which goes into best practices and key observations that aspiring soil scientists and anyone who wants to know what is going on in the food web under their feet can use to tap into a world of learning through their microscope. 
 
As is typical of my conversations with Matt, the topics range wildly from selecting the best equipment for building your microscope lab, and ensuring you don’t go blind over time, to the way that this information has helped him advise farmers all over the world to achieve amazing crop results, to fascinating conversations he’s had with leading scientists in the field and much more. 
 

Building community for farmers with Klarien Klingen

Since last year much of my work with Climate Farmers has been in building the European farmer community and creating connections so that members can learn from each other. 
I admittedly don’t have a lot of prior experience with this so I went looking for experienced and successful community builders to mentor me in the process. 
One of the most helpful and inspiring people the this search put me in touch with is Klarien Klingen, one of the primary organizers of the Dutch agroecological community called Toekomstboeren which translates to future farmers and works to strengthen the connection and representation of ecological farmers in their country. 
They’ve made commendable progress in advancing awareness of their community and hosting events that connect farmers around their country in the process. Both of which are things I aspire to do with the Climate Farmers community. 
In this conversation, Klarien and I explore her own background as a farmer and what has motivated her to unite others around her. We also look into what is behind the growth and success of Toekomstboeren as well as the collaborations and alliances that have strengthened their efforts. 
I have found the information and experience I’ve gained from my consultations with Klarien to be quite universal beyond just the particularities of the farming community. Her observations and learnings ring true for many of the other community efforts and unification projects I’ve observed and been a part of.

Ian Robertson, Ed Brown, and Ben Taylor-Davies on the knowledge and mindset needed for regenerative farm transitions (redux)

I’ve touched on this topic briefly in previous interviews, but it bears repeating. Agriculture around the world is going through a critical moment. The skyrocketing prices of petroleum products, meaning most agriculture chemicals and fertilizers as well as machinery fuel, is causing a tipping point for many farm businesses. Operations that have long been dependent on these synthetic inputs are facing tough decisions. Do they double down and continue to keep their land on life support, sticking with the system they know, but which is becoming more and more unsustainable, or do they take a gamble on new management methods that prioritize soil biology and multiple ecosystem services?
There are no easy answers since for most growers who’ve relied on these inputs for years if not decades, there will need to be a period of transition, even if they chose regenerative management, in which their yields could suffer.
Luckily, there are a few well qualified professionals out there with a track record of guiding farmers through the challenge of transitioning their land management practices, and I had the chance to speak to three of them in a special panel discussion. In today’s session I’ll be speaking with Ian Robertson, Ben Taylor-Davies, and Ed Brown. Between these three fellas they have decades of experience at the forefront of regenerative agriculture, and continue to push the advancement of agroecological innovation at both the individual farm scale as well as the institutional level.
All three of these guys are good friends who attest to speaking to one another just about every day and you’ll hear the characteristics of their friendship come out in this insightful and also light hearted discussion.

Leveraging native plant communities and ecological succession for regeneration, with Henry Anderson

One of my favorite topics to explore on this show is how other people with unique skill sets and talents look at the natural world and the ecological design process. I’ve been fortunate in my network of designers, educators, farmers, and academics to peer into the specialties of ecological understanding and design thinking from many points of view, and today is one of those opportunities.
I first met Henry Anderson through a design project that our mutual friend Juan Pablo was working on in Portugal through the Climate Farmers Pioneer program. We were looking at a feasibility test for a 50 hectare plot that some investors were considering as an investment in regenerative agriculture. Juan Pablo introduced me to Henry as a colleague who would look into all the potential for leveraging native plant communities for ecological restoration and high value crops. I was immediately impressed by Henry’s extensive knowledge of biomes and plant communities in Portugal and together we all developed a really elegant mixed agroforestry design for the clients. 
Long story short, the investment wasn’t picked up, but all three of us have been good friends ever since and now I’ve got Henry back to share some of his knowledge and experience as a biologist and designer. Henry is a Scottish multi-disciplinary designer based in Lisbon, Portugal with a background in landscape architecture, urban design and ecological planning. He has accumulated over fourteen years of professional experience working for leading architectural and landscape offices around the world, including in Australia, the Netherlands, Germany, United Kingdom and Portugal. Henry now specializes in delivering best practice regenerative solutions for landscape architecture, agriculture and ecological restoration projects within the Mediterranean biome, and follows an ecology led process that delivers multi-functional outcomes specific to each project's unique context.
In this conversation we talk at length about the process by which Henry starts to assess and investigate the state of ecological health and identify the plant and wildlife on a site, essentially his form of reading a landscape. We also look at the tools and resources that can expand the research process and give insights into historical land use and plant communities to open up more options for a design. 
Together we also dissect the concept of natural succession and how you can leverage this trajectory to enhance and speed up the development of your project, and a lot more as well.
For those of you who love the deeper science of ecology and biology, but find the academic approach to it a bit too disconnected, this is the interview for you since Henry has a unique way of explaining and making connections between the abstract concepts and real life applications.

Joseph Lofthouse shows how anyone can get started with landrace gardening

I’ve been looking forward to today’s session for a good couple months now. 
Though it’s been years since I got excited about seed saving and heard the first little bits of the ideas around landrace gardening, I only recently got a window into its real potential. I honestly feel a bit embarrassed that I didn’t know more about landrace plant breeding until recently since it’s the reason we have pretty much all the domesticated and semi-domesticated varieties of food that you can find all over the world. It also turns out to be an incredibly approachable practice that throws out the traditional rule book of plant breeding with its meticulous adherence to detailed record keeping, isolation distances, and inbreeding.
But instead of hearing about it from me, let me introduce you to Joseph Lofthouse.Joseph adopted the principles of landrace gardening in response to the harsh growing conditions in a high-altitude, short-season, desert garden. Instead of relying on expensive poisons, labor, and materials to coddle the plants, he instead encourages genetic diversity, cross-pollination, and survival of the fittest, allowing the plants to adapt themselves to the current and ever-changing ecosystem, thus simplifying gardening and seed saving. Joseph is the author of Landrace Gardening: Food Security Through Biodiversity and Promiscuous Pollination, and he was kind enough to send me a copy ahead of this interview.
I don’t always have the chance to read the books that get sent to me by publishers and authors in their entirety, but I have to admit I ate this one up and fully got through it cover to cover.In our conversation today, Joseph and I start by uncovering his personal pathway as a farmer early on and the failures and frustrations with seeds available in the stores that led him to experiment with landrace growing. 
Not only does Joseph face many challenges in the high desert environment up at more than 5000 ft of elevation in Utah, but he also practices what he calls “vacant lot farming,” which quite literally means he’s farming on abandoned plots of poor soil.From there we get more technical by clarifying the difference between a heirloom variety, a hybrid, open pollination, and a landrace, and why it’s so important for us as growers to move away from the industrialization of seeds and plant breeding. 
I also wanted to expand on the initial knowledge around the basic concepts of landrace gardening that we explored a couple weeks ago on this show in an interview with Julia Dakin who is a collaborator of Joseph’s. Together they created the “Going to Seed” network and free online course platform to promote landrace growing and seed sharing. In that interview we covered a lot of practical information and basics, and so I will recommend that you go back and listen to it in case we’ve skipped any essentials in this session. 
So building on that previous interview we dug into some of Joseph’s personal experiences and stories from trialing hundreds of landrace projects on his farm and some of the truly unique findings and evolutions that he’s witnessed. He also offers essential insights into not only the tips and tricks that have led to his successful breeds, but also the mindset and expectations that have helped him remain open to unexpected outcomes and the patience required for growing and reproduction cycles.
Touching on a deep interest of mine within the broader topic, we also navigate the challenges and potential of landrace trees and perennial crops. Joseph has a close family connection to walnut breeding and shares insights into the legacy work that this practice is for him.Over almost 7 years of listening to different ideas and practices from so many people all over the world, I’ve identified a few that, for me anyway, hold the most potential in various aspects of ecological restoration and regenerative growing practices. For example, working to restore the hydrological function of a landscape can yield outsized results for the amount of time and resources put into it.
Capturing and propagating indigenous microorganisms has an outsized impact on long term soil regeneration.
Landrace gardening looks at the challenge of growing food in diverse conditions and ever changing variables and switches the narrative from, how do we manipulate the environment to make it conducive to grow ever more narrow plant genetics, to, how do we increase and promote the plant (and animal) genetics to become resilient to both the challenges of our current growing conditions and the ever growing variables that the future will bring.
These are the efforts that every grower around the world both knowingly and unknowingly contributed to in order to produce food in the past, and I believe it’s essential for agri-cultures to embrace them once again. 

Helen Atthowe shares her secrets for long term ecological farming success

A lot of my work these days revolves around communicating with farmers around Europe who are at various stages of a transition towards regenerative management. For many different reasons farmers are looking for solutions outside of the conventional industry of chemical and technological manipulations and are rediscovering the potential of partnering with natural cycles and processes. Though there are a handful of examples of growers who’ve been pioneering these practices around the continent, the vast majority are fairly early in their journeys. It’s still rare to find an experienced commercial grower who has found success through organic, no-till, low input systems. 
Luckily there are a few who have shown that this is possible and are sharing their knowledge and experience and I’m thrilled to feature one of them in this session.Helen Atthowe has worked for 35 years to connect farming, food systems, land stewardship, and conservation. She currently farms and does soil- and natural enemies’ habitat- building research on her new 5-acre farm in Western Montana. Helen has an M.S. in Horticulture from Rutgers University and even studied with renowned Japanese farmer Masanobu Fukuoka. She has worked in education and research at Rutgers, the University of Arkansas, and Oregon State University and was a Horticulture Extension Agent in Montana for 17 years. Helen was a board member for the Organic Farming Research Foundation 2000-2005 and advisor for Wild Farm Alliance in 2018 & 2019. 
She first owned and operated a 30 acre certified organic vegetable/fruit farm in Montana and later co-owned with her late husband a 26 acre certified organic orchard in California. Together they then moved to a 211 acre organic farm in Eastern Oregon doing mainly orchard and vegetable production. The two of them also created educational videos on their YouTube channel called Agrarian Dreams, and did video presentations about their ecological farming methods.
She is the author of “The Ecological Farm: A Minimalist No-Till, No-Spray, Selective-Weeding, Grow-Your-Own-Fertilizer System for Organic Agriculture”. And that is exactly what we’ll be focusing on in our interview today.As a reflection of many of the discussions happening within the Climate Farmer’s community at the moment, Helen and I really dug into the unique goals she and her husband had during their farming careers and how they gauged their success. We talk about the way they measured progress on their journey towards a healthy yet low input system for both their orchard and vegetable crops as well the routines and practices that brought them the best results.Much more than just the knowledge and practices of her farming experience, Helen brings a remarkable mindset of constant learning and experimentation to this conversation that is now informing her new 5 acre project in Montana.We also cover the most important learnings that she has gained through her career and how it informs the establishment of all her new research.

Reflecting on the journey and my learnings after 300 episodes

Welcome to a very special episode of the regenerative skills podcast. This is the 300th episode that I am publishing today, and to make the occasion I wanted to try something new. At this point the show has grown immensely from where I started it and I would imagine that most of you who are tuned in now haven’t been here since the beginning. 
For that reason I’m going to revisit the origins of this show and explain the context in which this podcast was started, how it’s evolved along with my own personal journey, and bring you up to speed about where I am currently. We’re also going to check in with my dear partner Alba who is appearing only for the second time on this show. She’s bravely confronting her self consciousness about speaking English on a recording in order to share her perspective and ask some questions, and though I doubt she’ll ever listen to this episode, I want all of you to know how much it means to me to include her in this milestone and share my gratitude for all the support and patience she’s shown me in getting to this point.
 I also get a chance to speak with my dear little sister Emily, who has been my closest friend and confidant for my whole adult life. She and her three daughters, my nieces Selma, Rawan, and Lujane are here visiting for the first time since we moved to this farm and are spending two months of the summer with us. You’ll get to hear from all of them later in this session.
By the end I’ll also share some insights into the vision for both this podcast and the broader aspects of my work that the show is contained in. As with any future vision there are a lot of variables and uncertainties, but you’ll get a peek into what I have in the works at the moment before I hopefully announce them happening in future episodes.

William Horvath helps build effective processes for farms and homesteads

Today’s episode touches on a very timely topic for me. I’m currently developing a program to assist European farmers in their transition to regenerative management of their farms, and the big challenge is to make a program that is relevant for the vast array and contexts and differences that farmers across this continent are working from. No set of information is appropriate. No one teaching style is going to connect with everyone. 
Even the regulatory frameworks and incentive structures can vary a lot.I’ve long since observed this as an obstacle for design frameworks like permaculture which have a solid foundation in the principles and patterns of nature, but often get lost in the details and techniques like swales, chicken tractors, or herb spirals.I’m of the opinion that we’re all overwhelmed with information and possibilities in our bizarre anthropogenic world and more options and information often only serve to make choosing and taking action tougher. 
I believe that simple and reliable processes and organizational support have a much bigger role to play in helping us to set priorities, put parameters on our options, and make the overwhelm more manageable, especially when it comes to the complexities and timescales of working with living systems. 
Lucky for me, one of my friends and respected colleagues in the permaculture space has just developed a course and accompanying tools to assist precisely in this area.
William Horvath, founder of “Permaculture Apprentice.” William studied permaculture in Australia before quitting his job as a geologist for the mining industry there and moved with his wife back to Croatia where he is originally from. 
For years now he’s been developing his own permaculture paradise and writing and educating about his experiences on his blog and through his design and consulting services through permacultureapprentice.com. He has also begun teaching permaculture courses for people looking to start their own farms and transition to a regenerative lifestyle.
In today’s session we pick apart the common hurdles that lead to inaction and paralysis despite having all the knowledge and information we may need. We talk about the common problem of having lofty goals, many projects going on at once, and limited time and resources to do them.
From there we go deep into defining the What, Where, and How of your goals in order to build them into a process. William talks about how to break them down into manageable chunks from there through phases and steps of development as well as sharing tools and advice for keeping everything organized and scheduled in calendars and to-do lists so you never miss essential windows again.
I really want to express just how important I believe that this piece of the puzzle is for all of us in reaching our goals. I know from my own experience how much getting organized, building routines, planning ahead in detail, and creating loops of experimentation, monitoring, and revision have all been in my life and in my success with clients and in business. 
Though I’ve come a long way personally, I still have a lot of learning in this area and doubling down on preparation and planning has always paid dividends for myself and those I know who excel in their chosen fields.
Before we get started, I’ll also recommend that you go over to the links in the show notes where William has given exclusive access to some of the tools and templates that feature in his course in order to get you started. 
And if any of you want to stay up on the development of the transition program I’m building for Climate Farmers, the beta program will be available for members of the Climate Farmer’s community this fall and you can sign up now on our website at climatefarmers.org.

A new formula for integral and long lasting development work with Daillen Culver and Lailani Yats

Today’s episode is going to require some context for anyone who’s not familiar with the origin of this show.
Back in 2017 when I started this podcast I was doing an internship with my friend and mentor Charlie Rendal on bamboo building in Lake Atitlan Guatemala. I had been traveling back and forth from Guatemala for a number of years.
I had originally gone down there with a friend to learn Spanish and I ended up coming back for years to see friends and just because I love that country.
In my time there it was impossible not to get connected with all kinds of projects and initiatives to try and improve the living conditions for local people.
Guatemala is one of the poorest countries in the world, and the second poorest in Latin America by GDP. While I understand that that’s not the only meaningful metric for quality of life, there was no ignoring the fact that the opportunities and resources that I saw in most other places I traveled and had taken for granted in my life up until then were drastically lacking in most parts of that country. 
For this and many other reasons which we’ll touch briefly on in today’s conversation, everywhere you go in Guatemala you’ll find Non Governmental Organizations or NGOs as well as all types of charities and aid entities claiming to work to address everything from malnutrition to ecological challenges, sanitation, infrastructure, education and everything else in between.
It seemed like every foreigner who I met who wasn’t a backpacker worked for one of these groups and when my friends and I eventually bought a small plot of land and started to put down roots, we began to learn a lot about the aid industry all around us.
Between rumors, first hand stories, and even my own experience it became clear that more than a small percentage of these organizations were not as altruistic as they projected. It was well known that many were fronts for money laundering.
Others simply paid out large salaries for foreigners to attend events and fundraise while little worked on the ground. Stories of corrupt sequestering of funds were common, and even among these entities that were really committed to their work, I heard so much about communities having solutions forced on them with little say in the matter.
Projects getting abandoned before completion, technological fixes handed over with little or no training, and so many others I could go on about.Despite this grim picture I’m painting of the aid industry in Guate, I did get to know and make friends with a handful of people who really took the time to understand and integrate with their chosen communities before devising solutions.
I got to know folks who were also putting down roots and really had some skin in the game when it came to the outcomes of their work and impact. Today I want to take a look at one in particular, called Seeds for a Future, as much for the work they’re doing as for the approach and learnings that guide their initiative.
This organization first came to my attention when my close friend Leilani reached out to put me in touch with Daillen Culver who is their director of operations. Leilani has been on the show before and she is one of the few people I know who has traveled extensively within Guatemala and has an intimate knowledge of both the good and reprehensible aid work that is happening in that country.
So when she brought Daillen and Semillas para un Futuro to my attention, I knew it would be worth looking into.In this session both Daillen and Leilani join me to talk about the simple beginnings of this project and the unique context in which it got off the ground.
They help to outline the challenges that the communities they work with are facing and the long term approach to co-create solutions along with the people they collaborate with.
We also cover the principles that guide the progress and decisions within the project and the external challenges that Daillen and Leilani work from outside to support.Charity and aid work continue to be fraught with controversy and skepticism, and I will not make the assertion today that the approach that Seeds for a future is taking is the only effective one.
I do however appreciate the perspective and insight that both of these women bring to such a tricky subject and I hope that it will make space to continue this conversation in future episodes as well as on the Regenerative Skills Discord Community.